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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Took the commander over to Pro Shop and had them dyno it during some testing that was being done. The guys at BRP install a ECU addon that removed the torque limiter when wheel spin occurred. The commander has Adam's CvTech and STM clutch mod. In the end the ECU prevented anything from adding any increase in HP to the commander. This commander did however produce 58 HP on the dyno whereas other commanders only produced 52 to 54 HP. The BRP guys were more interested in knowing about the clutch mod than giving any useful info on this ECU lockdown.
 

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Took the commander over to Pro Shop and had them dyno it during some testing that was being done. The guys at BRP install a ECU addon that removed the torque limiter when wheel spin occurred. The commander has Adam's CvTech and STM clutch mod. In the end the ECU prevented anything from adding any increase in HP to the commander. This commander did however produce 58 HP on the dyno whereas other commanders only produced 52 to 54 HP. The BRP guys were more interested in knowing about the clutch mod than giving any useful info on this ECU lockdown.
On the down side those RWHP numbers are still too low to get excited about for me,,,,, on the up side the hefty torque numbers, usually not mentioned, are what pushes these Commanders (and Rhintaxes) so well .....Lance

...sent with TapaTalk...please excuse brevity & no smileys
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
On the down side those RWHP numbers are still too low to get excited about for me,,,,, on the up side the hefty torque numbers, usually not mentioned, are what pushes these Commanders (and Rhintaxes) so well .....Lance

...sent with TapaTalk...please excuse brevity & no smileys
The HP numbers are low for everyone on the ProShop dyno....lol. On other dynos the numbers might read any where from 63 to 66 HP. The torque numbers were 88 to 90 on the commander and about 45 on the built Rhintax.
 

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The HP numbers are low for everyone on the ProShop dyno....lol. On other dynos the numbers might read any where from 63 to 66 HP. The torque numbers were 88 to 90 on the commander and about 45 on the built Rhintax.
Nice torque numbers on the Commander 1000!!...thanx for that info.....

Curious why the torque is so low for a built Rhintax??...what parts in the build didn't complement each other to make the torque fall flat on it's face at only 45???....just wondering what happened is all..Lance

...sent with TapaTalk...please excuse brevity & no smileys
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Nice torque numbers on the Commander 1000!!...thanx for that info.....

Curious why the torque is so low for a built Rhintax??...what parts in the build didn't complement each other to make the torque fall flat on it's face at only 45???....just wondering what happened is all..Lance

...sent with TapaTalk...please excuse brevity & no smileys
Can't answer that other than the built 800 motors don't have the same stroke as the 1000. The long stroke of the 1000 produces much more torque but the HP on a built 800 rhinotax can be higher especially if it is built right. I saw the numbers on a 975 Rhinotax with billet heads from MRrpm and it produced 65 hp at the wheels but the torque was no where close to the Commander. With the clutch the commander will beat this thing up the hill but on the flats the 975 might win
 

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Can't answer that other than the built 800 motors don't have the same stroke as the 1000. The long stroke of the 1000 produces much more torque but the HP on a built 800 rhinotax can be higher especially if it is built right. I saw the numbers on a 975 Rhinotax with billet heads from MRrpm and it produced 65 hp at the wheels but the torque was no where close to the Commander. With the clutch the commander will beat this thing up the hill but on the flats the 975 might win
JMOO...after I did the Motoman breakin...10hrs...LBR (rhintax stock 800w/dalton kit) and I did approx..300'
drag race 2wdhigh....Dead even...4wdhigh...I just barely beat him...
Put on Muzzy's Race...2wdhigh & I took the Rhintax by about 1 1/2 lenghts...so I have a hard time believing that there is that much of a difference...:):):)not doubting any dyno...just real life..:unsure::unsure: even when we race up a hill there is just not that much difference...could it be the weight difference between the 2 cars be the difference?
Once both LBR & I get the same paddle set up we will do some real life testing..just waiting on my wheels...JMOO....Barbara
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
JMOO...after I did the Motoman breakin...10hrs...LBR (rhintax stock 800w/dalton kit) and I did approx..300'
drag race 2wdhigh....Dead even...4wdhigh...I just barely beat him...
Put on Muzzy's Race...2wdhigh & I took the Rhintax by about 1 1/2 lenghts...so I have a hard time believing that there is that much of a difference...:):):)not doubting any dyno...just real life..:unsure::unsure: even when we race up a hill there is just not that much difference...could it be the weight difference between the 2 cars be the difference?
Once both LBR & I get the same paddle set up we will do some real life testing..just waiting on my wheels...JMOO....Barbara
Barbara I can't speak for your commander but here is what my commander did against another and the only difference between the 2 of us is Adam's CvTech and STM clutch setup. That same commander lost to a built 840 Rhinotax that is very fast. I easily beat the RhinoTax (4 lengths) in a short race even after giving him a head start. The commander indeed does have more torque but the real difference between the 800 and commander is up the hill. I beat the 840 up olds at Glamis by 8 lengths even though I had to slow down in the whoops. The Torque is unbelievable but it needs the clutch to apply it properly. The stock clutch sucks and you can be beat by a stock RhinoTax using the stock clutch. I'm interested in the muzzy since you did say it made your commander faster. Tell me more please


 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Race

This is a race between a very fast 840 built Rotax Rhino. This Rhino is much faster than any other non-turbo Rotax Rhino that I have seen at Glamis. His car beat a stock commander and a 800 Rotax Rhino by over 12 to 15 lengths down the drags. With the clutch only my commander easily pulled away from his Rhino and others in a short race. There is a significant differences between our cars. His actually produces more HP but the torque is much higher on the commander. Racing up hill I pull him by 8 lengths up Olds even though I have to slow down through the whoops and then play catch up.

 

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<----- the other Commander :)

I think the camera added a couples extra lengths ... lol

I drove commanderguy's after we raced and that clutch does make a huge difference!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
<----- the other Commander :)

I think the camera added a couples extra lengths ... lol

I drove commanderguy's after we raced and that clutch does make a huge difference!
You got jokes but now that you have some serious shocks on your commander I think you will be faster up the hill than me....lol. Lets make another video next week of your shock setup.

BTW it seems that lots of stock commanders are not equal. I watched 2 bone stock commanders race and one was much quicker than the other. The guy said it was stock and it looked stock. SandCyco as an engineer do you think that the way people break these things in effects the performance of the commander?
 

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I hope I can make it out again next week, would be fun to make some comparisons. We need some nice clear video though.

From what I read about Break-in, your machine runs the way you break it in. I did 4x 10 min easy rides, letting it cool down each time. Then I rode it hard. I was going up China Wall the first day I had it out, was about 10 ft short of the top using stock tires aired down to 5.5lbs.

I am sure tires/paddles, number of paddles, and air pressure can cause a big difference in 2 stock commanders. ;)
 

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I hope I can make it out again next week, would be fun to make some comparisons. We need some nice clear video though.

From what I read about Break-in, your machine runs the way you break it in. I did 4x 10 min easy rides, letting it cool down each time. Then I rode it hard. I was going up China Wall the first day I had it out, was about 10 ft short of the top using stock tires aired down to 5.5lbs.

I am sure tires/paddles, number of paddles, and air pressure can cause a big difference in 2 stock commanders. ;)
That the best way to break it in?
 

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Shall we all conclude that the Rotax powered machines, while maybe not extremely consistent with each other, are one mean force for sure ....Lance

...sent with TapaTalk...please excuse brevity & no smileys
 

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That the best way to break it in?
Dont intend to get off topic but this is what I found regarding breakin's

Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power



What's The Best Way To Break-In A New Engine ??
The Short Answer: Run it Hard !

Why ??
Nowadays, the piston ring seal is really what the break in process is all about. Contrary to popular belief, piston rings don't seal the combustion pressure by spring tension. Ring tension is necessary only to "scrape" the oil to prevent it from entering the combustion chamber.

If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall ...
How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of
PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ??
Of course it can't.

How Do Rings Seal Against Tremendous Combustion Pressure ??

From the actual gas pressure itself !! It passes over the top of the ring, and gets behind it to force it outward against the cylinder wall. The problem is that new rings are far from perfect and they must be worn in quite a bit in order to completely seal all the way around the bore. If the gas pressure is strong enough during the engine's first miles of operation (open that throttle !!!), then the entire ring will wear into
the cylinder surface, to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible.


The Problem With "Easy Break In" ...
The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run.

There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ... the first 20 miles !!

If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the roughness before they fully seat. Once that happens there is no solution but to re hone the cylinders, install new rings and start over again.

Fortunately, most new sportbike owners can't resist the urge to "open it up" once or twice,
which is why more engines don't have this problem !!

An additional factor that you may not have realized, is that the person at the dealership who set up your bike probably blasted your brand new bike pretty hard on the "test run". So, without realizing it, that adrenaline crazed set - up mechanic actually did you a huge favor !!

Warm the engine up completely:
Because of the wind resistance, you don't need to use higher gears like you would on a dyno machine. The main thing is to load the engine by opening the throttle hard in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear.

Realistically, you won't be able to do full throttle runs even in 2nd gear on most bikes without exceeding 65 mph / 104 kph. The best method is to alternate between short bursts of hard acceleration and deceleration. You don't have to go over 65 mph / 104 kph to properly load the rings. Also, make sure that you're not being followed by another bike or car when you decelerate, most drivers won't expect that you'll suddenly slow down, and we don't want
anyone to get hit from behind !!

The biggest problem with breaking your engine in on the street (besides police) is if you ride the bike on the freeway (too little throttle = not enough pressure on the rings) or if you get stuck in slow city traffic. For the first 200 miles or so, get out into the country where you can vary the speed more
and run it through the gears !

Be Safe On The Street !
Watch your speed ! When you're not used to the handling of a new vehicle, you should accelerate only on the straightaways, then slow down extra early for the turns. Remember that both hard acceleration and hard engine braking (deceleration) are equally important during the break in process.
 

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I read that MotoMan's break in and some other posts and then decided on the 40 min easy ride, then the ride it like you stole it! Dont forget that you are breaking in the belt too. ;)

edit: My "easy ride" may be misleading. I just mean I wasnt floored the whole way, I was still going fast, but also slowing down a bit and going through different speeds. I hope I am not too confusing, lol ...
 

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I read that MotoMan's break in and some other posts and then decided on the 40 min easy ride, then the ride it like you stole it! Dont forget that you are breaking in the belt too. ;)

edit: My "easy ride" may be misleading. I just mean I wasnt floored the whole way, I was still going fast, but also slowing down a bit and going through different speeds. I hope I am not too confusing, lol ...
I did motoman break in and never worried about breaking in the belt...400 miles & no belt issue.... all sand
 
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